The narrator suggests that it's morally repugnant to Taker culture to allow others to starve Ishmael suggests that as long as food supplies increase, the population will increase and that staving off famine by bringing in food from elsewhere only exacerbates the problem. This discussion leads them to the topic of famines. Ishmael suggests that Takers see agriculture as a means to promote unchecked growth, not simply as a means to supply food for the existing population. His explanation of these principles leads him and the narrator to discussing the role of agriculture in Taker culture. Additionally, when population increases, food decreases and when food decreases, population decreases as well.

He says that when food supplies increase, populations increase. Ishmael then presents a brief overview of ecological principles. Having come to this conclusion, the narrator sees that Taker culture is not so much clumsy in its execution of civilization, but is actually at war with the rest of the planet. They decide it promotes diversity and survival for the community as a whole since it favors no species above the rest. Ishmael approves of the narrator's rules and asks what they promote. He says the three basic rules are 1) do not exterminate your competition for food 2) do not destroy your competitors' food supply in order to grow your own and 3) do not deny access to food to others.

He returns to Ishmael on the fifth day with his findings. It takes the narrator four days to figure out the basic laws of life.

Ishmael book daniel quinn